Here we all are... God's children and gay. What exactly does this mean for us?? Kicked out of churches and shunned by the gay community, left on our bloody knees crying out to God where to go next. I have never been more confused in my entire life. I am being told by "friends" that are "christians", that the bible was made for the past, present and future and that God's word never changes... But what about all of the laws in the new testiment changing the old? Why do throw out certain things and accept others? Why didn't Christ teach on homosexuality if its so horrible??
I believe that we can reach some sort of conclusion that gay or straight, random sexual acts and orgies would be wrong... But why the emphasis homosexuals not getting into heaven?
When I bow my heart in prayer, I can't help but hear the condemnation from the church and other people that I am perverse and confused person. It just doesn't make sense.
Why do I feel so natural with a woman and not a man?
As confused as I am, I still have found in a place called peace for the first time in my life after finding my life partner. But why is this? Is it because according all the other christians, I have given up??
I attended The Exodus Ministry conference one year and it seemed as if those people were completely miserable. I did not know what to make of the women that were placed in the same dorms with other women either. You would think they would stick the gay men with the gay women or something... The whole thing was incredibly expensive and I have never been hit on more in my entire life all together!
I guess... I just don't know how to go to God anymore without hearing these people voices in the back of head...
Am I the only one feeling this way?

Dear Katt,

I hear your confusion and frustration. It really sucks, doesn't it? I know it's very hard to feel pulled in different directions. I would encourage you to try to focus on God, and on His word (the Bible). Pray with Him, very honestly. Pray like you don't already know the answer. Really. I cannot say that He will magically take away all of your struggle and confusion. In my case, it seems that He has transformed me over time, not instantly. And he hasn't transformed me into a straight person, either.

It's so easy to get all wrapped up in the anxiety and turmoil until you feel like you're just spinning. Stop. Be still. Remember that He is God, He loves you, wants you to be free from fear and to have an abundant life.

If you haven't done so already, check out Elaine's book "Calling the Rainbow Nation Home" to start addressing your many questions. See the articles on this website about faith and sexuality. You're not alone, Katt.

searcher2003

Dear Katt,
I'm so sorry that you are hurting. As Searcher says, pray and listen to God, not to mere humans. I firmly and totally believe that God loves you just as you are. I will keep you in my prayers.
Ingrid

Hey Katt, I can't write all that I'm feeling in a little window box that I'm presently staring at. First off, THE BIBLE DOES NOT CONDEMN YOU! I implore you to read through the material on the web page "Gay and Christian?" and/or read my book "Calling the Rainbow Nation Home". If your at all like me you will never have peace in your life until you first know that your ok with God. So rather than keep wringing your hands and heart about it READ the material. Trust me, trust me, trust me(!) IT WILL HELP. And I have to say the book is much better than the online articles. The online articles are like the crib notes from the book. I think personal stories and experiences coupled with Bible passages are a much better way to learn something. Take the time and read the book. After you read my book I suggest you read Jeff Miner's book "The Children are Free". Jeff does a good job of looking at the clobber passages. He also looks at the 'pro-gay' passages in the Bible. Both books explore the issue from slightly different angles but they work very, very well together. Both cover the clobber passages.

As for Christians hating gays - that is a good question but I think there is a purpose to all things and yes I think God is allowing to occur right now for a very definite reason. There is much pride, prejudice etc.. that God is allowing the Holy Spirit to work out of the church right now. We are hardly the first group of folks to be attacked and condemned by the church. And the church has always used some skewed interpretation of the Bible to support their prejudice. God has a plan though and our present suffering/trials are NOT in vain.

As for the gay community hating us I don't really see that. Oh we may not be everyone's 'cup of tea' but who cares? When you find a wonderful Christian soul mate it makes all the searching well worth the wait. As long as I'm cool with God, at peace in my own heart, and believe that something good is coming out of this in the end run then I can endure most anything. First things first though. Get settled in your heart that God LOVES YOU - JUST THE WAY YOU ARE!!! READ!!!

I would agree with you guys regarding this one.. it does feel like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place sometimes. One of my friends (and a Christian at that) looks at it as an exciting place to be. We're bridging (or trying to) the gap between the two communities who are often seen as opposed. There aren't all that many of us who are trying to build bridges - we have a hard task ahead I think!
I often feel like I don't fit into either camp - I don't conform to the perceived stereotype that lots of people have of a lesbian, and I'm obviously not a 'good' Christian in some people's eyes, cos if I were I would either be single or deny myself and get married (in the straight sense of the word).

However..... To be honest, I don't care! I like the fact that I don't conform to a stereotype. I like not being easily labelled and that I make people think. A lot of the people I know are more suprised I'm a Christian than they are that I'm gay.

In regards to the Bible, as far as I know, Jesus said that all the Old Testament laws could be summed up in two 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself.' There isn't (I don't think) any p.s that says 'oh, and don't be homosexual.' I also think that the fact that Jesus didn't say anything on the matter could indicate that it really wasn't that big an issue. He said a whole lot about divorce, and a whole lot about how you should treat people, attitudes to life, paying taxes etc, but nothing about homosexuality.
I heard a statistic (can't remember where) that said that less than 1% of the Bible is about homosexuality, and a significantly larger proportion is about divorce/marriage. Makes you wonder why it is such a big issue in the church.

As far as your first post goes, Katt7, try taking your confusion to God. He's big enough to handle doubt and questions like this! I reckon he's heard them from most of us already anyway! I understand what you say about it being difficult to pray with all the questions in your head; there are plenty of incidences in the Bible of people crying out in frustration and questioning God and I've done it myself. Give it a try and see how you go. Ask God for peace/clarity/guidance/whatever on the issue as well.
Remember one thing - GOD LOVES YOU! No matter how confused/frustrated/angry/upset/whatever you may feel, he still loves you!

Like many others, it has taken me YEARS and YEARS to come to peace with who I was, and whether I was "right" with God being who I am.
I do need to tell you, though that your questions are right and good....but remember to go to GOD with them first as He does the best job of speaking for Himself. Don't be afraid to take these questions to Him. It is good to wonder about these things, good to ask, and not just to accept things because you want to hear them.

"I hear your confusion and frustration. It really sucks, doesn't it?" -searcher2003

It does suck. Just like Wanderer, I feel like I don't fit in anywhere either. None of my gay friends even know what it means to be born again,
how to be saved or want to be.

And the straight Christians reject the idea that I can be gay and be a Christian.
It is frustrating.

As far as Jesus not commenting on homosexuality, I sometimes wonder if
it was because he thought it was something that was such an obvious sin that he didn't need to elaborate on it.. like bestiality..?
I hate making that comparison, but I have to wonder anyway because of
Paul's comments in Romans 1:26: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections.." KJV
I keep thinking about that word: "vile". I can't help but wonder if that's what God really thinks about our homosexuality.

I wonder again about that statement he made when he said, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." -Luke 9:23 KJV

So I'm left to wonder if I'm supposed to deny who I am, to be who he wants me to be, with the idea that my reward is in heaven for doing that. But if I don't, I'm sinning against God.

Well there's some more confusion for everybody... sorry.
I just don't know either..

O Gosh, so many thoughts that we all think and share. I wonder if it were right would there be a question at all. I ask my self. Does it come from truth, fear, or others? My questioning comes from fear and not peace or I would listen to the questioning and Christian bigots.

When I think about my decision to be with Elizabeth I wonder all these things and it causes such heavy sadness, to think that by loving her I could be actually hurting her. That I have to love her or God and I just love them both.
I know what some would say about that… “It’s ok to love her just not the way you love her.” I can’t help the way I love her. I neither asked nor caused neither.

I find it hard to believe that I could be born again and love God the way I do and serve Him the way I do and have Satan have any control over my heart. So where did these feelings of such strong love come from, but Him if He owns every heart beat every breath?

Some Christians that I know would say that I didn’t give my heart or life or everything to God, but I did. I know God knows that. God knowing that and if it’s “wrong” it’s then also heartless and cruel to give me up to ““VILE” affections.” (I dont know if I beleive that.)I’ve been doing all that is in my heart to be rid of this these feelings 4 12yrs because that is what I was told that God wanted and… I have never been attracted to anyone male or female, until I was 20 and met this beautiful spirit, a woman. I had no desires to kiss anyone before her.

Three months into our friendship I knew that I was attracted to her and I knew that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. These feelings I know are not of lust or perversion, nor feelings of not wanting to serve God. This feeling, my deep love and attraction, was joyful but unspoken for her. Joyful because it made me happy but like everything else it was bitter sweet. I would feel joy but guilty for that joy because everyone has told me that God hated what I felt and it made me feel good. Everyone told me that God hated Homo’s.

Elizabeth had no Idea. I felt so hurt and confused because I loved God with all my heart and only wanted what He wanted for my life. I would have had him make me a cheerleader in my heart (opposite of me) if He willed it. I thought that that was all it took is my will, and He would change my heart if it were wrong.

How could this be not only has it been 12 years of praying believing and doing, but now I feel in love with a girl? What? He let it progress? I sobbed every second about this (no exaggeration). Did I betray God somehow or did He fail me? (Did He bless me and answer my prayer? Yes, I wish to believe this pondering. That were supposed to be together because that means I can be happy and He answered my prayers.) But what should I believe, what should I feel and what should I do?

I told Him destroy me physically but don’t let Satan have my heart, “don’t let me go.” I was never what that scripture says those people were but not being able to be anything else but what I was and not able to do anything about it, gradually made me feel like that. How could I find the will to not be loved, happy, in love? (But God never asked me to. I just thought that I had to. I mean our youth pastors were always trying to separate us.) This pain made me become what that scripture said angry at God, not wanting to serve Him if I couldn’t Love. I knew it wasnt right and tried fighting it but it was so difficult. I didn’t know what else to do what does one have if not the reassurance that God will deal with your heart and that God would protect you, and answer your prayers.

I now think that despite what other Christians say maybe God was trying to answer my prayers with the blessing of the happiness and love she brings. Her great love and friendship confirms His faithfulness and what I know to be true about Him. I’ve tried for 2 years not to love her the way I do and that didn’t work. I’ve tried to not love her at all, But that just crushed my spirit completly.

When I think about spending the rest of my life with her and how much she means to me it’s then that I am turned on. How are those “vile affections?” I haven’t thought of neither her breasts nor any other physical thing about her and burned inside my self to have sex with her, nor anyone else for that matter. I know what Jesus says about that. But I do think about how much I love her, more than anyone else she is so special to me, (feelings that I have about friends and family, but these feelings with them are not fallowed by attraction like it has been with her ONLY, I then want to express it and share my soul with her. I desire to be one with her, for our souls to be tied together, and we make love, I have never felt guilty for anything else but not feeling guilty. I have never wanted to turn from God until I felt abandoned and helpless; by not being able to use the only heart I have been given. When I am with her I desire to serve Him. I still have my fears and doubts but I also have those about not being together. I know Gods voice and when He speaks then I will move. I refuse to operate out of fear anymore, only love from now on, and for now I love her.

It’s hard though. Those doubts make it confusing what I’m supposed to be now to God and I have to find the new me in Him. For the greater good of everyone around me I need to. I know I’m nothing with out Him. I especially can’t be anything good to my love if I’m not close to God.

It’s hard because I can’t be honest with Christians and it makes me irritated that they don’t think that even if I’m a "sinner" that we all are. There actions only beccome cruel and ungodly. I hate that I cant look at Lizzy the way I do because it’s too much indication that were in love and they soon want to exercise and separate us. ( it's happened.) Controlling and hateful Christians are all I know, and lost and worldly are the rest of the gay community that I know. Where do we fit in? My sweet Lizzy gets lonely. She told some of our Christian friends and they all shunned us then. the others didn’t even know were together, they just heard something as a result of their gossiping,and soon the whole church was trying to tell us we cant be boys. We had just committed an un kosher “SIN” to them and that was enough, because they wouldn’t sin in that way they were more righteous and what we had was contagious.

Gay Christians may exist but they hardly come out of the wood work because of the hate from Christians about being gay and the world hates us because were Christians. I don’t want my love to be lonely and I don’t know what to do about it. I almost want to break up sometimes, so Christians would accept her, but I don’t think that that is necessarily right. I would just hate for her to be lonely because of me. I love her too much for that.

Nora

I actually like your questions because it makes me feel like you are actually seeking God on this. I don't have all the answers, but Nora, I would REALLY like to encourage you to read Elaine's book- when I am reading what you are going through, I feel like I am re-reading a chapter of Elaine's book. Boy, this whole thing is a quandry, isn't it? Just recently, a Christian school in California EXPELLED a student for having lesbian parents. (I guess she made some sort of announcement at a football game or something). I can imagine them feeling smugly Christian and righteous about this decision, and I am saddened...I know the school has a policy about the parents not living together, etc., but I am also frankly shocked about what kind of witness this was. These are parents who have been together for MANY years. I guess if it is against their beliefs, anything goes? It is OK to dishonor your parents? It is OK to make a child "pay" for the percieved "sin" of the parents? Then, I wondered about the divorced parents...have they interviewed every set to make sure there wasn't even a hint of adultery? Have they made sure that women don't remarry if their ex-husband is still alive? I illustrate this to show how much of our OWN prejudices and beliefs get wrapped up in our faith...why it is OK for a Christian organization to reject the child of lesbian parents while accepting the children of the divorced.
I also wonder if the people who condemn us have REALLY studied the matter? You do know that there are respected mainstream Christians like the late Lewis Smedes (Google his name)who supported us. There ARE committed Christians who support us. It hurts me, too, though. I have had to let relationships go where I truly believed I would not be accepted, or would be pressured to "change". There was no big fight. I just stopped keeping in touch. I still love them very much, though.

-As far as Jesus not commenting on homosexuality, I sometimes wonder if
it was because he thought it was something that was such an obvious sin that he didn't need to elaborate on it.. like bestiality..?
I hate making that comparison, but I have to wonder anyway because of
Paul's comments in Romans 1:26: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections.." KJV_

I thought this was an interesting point, but wonder in my heart, how you can compare a loving relationship between two people with sexually abusing an animal? Jesus ALSO did not speak about abortion (As we now know it) and probably quite a few other things that aren't in the middle of hot debate....and the thought comes to mind...maybe He was not done speaking yet? And about the Romans 1 reference....I think that chapter needs to be taken IN CONTEXT, because if this all leads to homosexuality, why aren't those nations who heavily practice idolatry in their religions mostly homosexual? I admit that there was a time where I dabbled in the occult and idolatry, and have long since repented of..but even then, I believed there was a Power over ALL things that I NEVER wanted to be seperated from, and I do not feel I did the things in Romans to "become" a homosexual. If that is the recipe, then why am I a homosexual? I made the "choice" to be straight, and that didn't happen, either.
Does this cause more questions?

Just a humble two cents' worth:

After struggling with this for years, it "dawned" on me (I know Who the dawning came from!) that when Jesus gave us a new commandment -- that we "love one another" -- the answer I sought is in the word "love" itself, and all that it implies.

All that true love is, is described in detail in I Corinthians 13 -- anything less is not the real thing. If we truly can express our love to another sacrificially by this yardstick, where their greatest good is our sole focus (as opposed to selfish motives), then (I believe) we have met His gold standard.

This also includes love in all its joys and agonies — even to love someone enough to release them if that is what they wish, for "he loves most who loves without hope."

John 3:16 gives the sole prescription for salvation:
"Whosoever believeth IN HIM . . . " (NOT "believeth in Him and change their brown eyes to blue," or "believeth in Him and change their left-handedness to right-handedness," and surely not "believeth in Him and change sexual orientation."

I believe a close examination of Jesus' ministry reveals that He was FAR MORE CONCERNED with the sins of the HEART (greed, hatred, pride, hypocrisy, etc. — things that a person CAN change!!!) than with the sins of the flesh.

He RAILED against the Jewish leaders because of their sniveling hypocrisy — THAT's what stirred His righteous blood!! Contrast that response to how He responded to the woman caught in adultery.

He "knows our frames and remembers we are dust." I KNOW I cannot change my orientation. It's as much a fixed part of me as my brown eyes. I will trust Him when He says "my grace is sufficient for thee." I will trust His love, and will remember that NOTHING -- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING -- can separate us from that precious love.


Someday, we will have all our answers. But for now -- "the just shall live by faith."

Lizzy says that she just needs to get closer to God. She says that she is lonely and because she has always kept her self busy and never dealt with any type of loneliness she is sad sometimes. She says "now that she met me she doesn’t want to hang out with people who do drugs and who are shallow". That is a very limited group here in Albuquerque New Mexico. Were like number one in all that stuff out of the entire country. She's used to sweet small town girls with Christian back grounds. She's from Montana. (I find that so cute.) When she first came here she was trouble and enjoyed those bad things. I wonder if she isn’t feeling the loneliness because she now is being choosy with her friends. She has grown so much and has changed so much.

She scared me when I first met, she was so nice; genuinely nice, but when I heard she was from a different state it explained it all. Now there are Christians who don’t do that stuff here but they are so snobby. I'm used to it being that way here, having to stand up for my beliefs even if that means standing alone, but I don’t think that she is. I grew up with only one or two friends here a year because it is so limited on good friendly nice people here. I have only a few friends now .They have moved but were still close. Lizzy doesn’t have ex good friends she has ex-girlfriends only. I used to be fine with that till one of them tried making out with her one Christmas now I don’t like them very much. It makes me uncomfortable for her to be alone with them. If they hung out in groups then I wouldn’t be so much, I trust her it just hurts, because she said she “sortive” kissed her back and… it just really hurt. Even though I’m trusting her more and more things are really difficult between us and her “friends”. "sortive" kissed back means let the other girl kiss for to long. I dont know what to think. I want to just trust her but that is so veg that it makes it hard.

My mother is friendly like her they bare the same sadness. I would let her go but she says that it wouldn’t matter if I was with her or not she will always be in love with me. Either way she will have to lie about being gay to fit in with them, and how can those be true friends. She says that the sacrifice is worth it to her that it just hits her sometimes. I really hope so.

we both were so angry hurt and confused when all this first happened, so were just now feeling like it's ok to come to God as we are (instead of how others want us to be and think that we should be. So I feel the loneliness too, but I feel at least have her in all this now, but I worry for her... We are finally healing now, and we made a promise, if God tells us that it is not what He wants, we believe that God will do what is necessary in our hearts to help us cope and get through it. We now know that were not condemned but under grace, because we need to know what God wants in our hearts not in fear or control from others but peace, love ,and truth from Him.

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