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Wow! Anyone see this movie yet? Powerful, difficult to watch at times but definitely gave me a greater appreciation of the sufferings Christ went through for us!
'Wish List': 1. Wish Gibson would do more movies about various theme's/people in the Bible. Doubt this would ever happen but I can wish can't I? 2. Wish the movie had given a line or two to the fact that Caiaphas KNEW that Jesus was the Messiah but elected to kill Him anyway. Why? To preserve their religious institutions (John 11:47-50) - from which of course he gained his own of position of power. Caiaphas and the other high priests equated the preservation of Israel - NOT with God - but with the preservation of her existing religious institutions and doctrines! Of course, Gibson needed the support of our EXISTING religious institutions so I'm sure he didn't want to step on any toes... 3. I really, really, really (!) didn't like Gibson portrayal of satan and Herod as feminine 'Nellie' men (wearing eye make-up, long fingernails, androgynous appearance, wigs etc.. ). Now in defense of Gibson my wife pointed out that the Egyptians appointed Herod King. I don't know if this is true or not - I always thought it was the Romans. If true (I would need to study the Scripture a bit) then Herod would 'most likely' take on the customs etc.. of the Eqyptians (and the men did wear make-up etc..). Still - in today's 'anti-gay' environment we don't need 'stuff' like this. People can be EXTREMELY simplistic in their thinking and few know Scripture. They tend to accept what they've been spoon-fed from the pulpit (or from the theatre...). Don't let this stop you from seeing the movie though. I'm just a little sensitive about this issue right now...  4. Would have loved it if Gibson had added a scene showing Jesus going down to hell and taking satan's 'keys' of authority away from him. They do show one scene of satan screaming in hell when Christ dies. You know that satan just realized that he had royally 'blew it'! So much could have been said about Jesus' dominion over the kingdom of darkness with one additional scene. Too bad... Final thoughts: Excellent movie and one I think every Christian would benefit by seeing. Difficult to watch, but so was the sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross. Also growing up Catholic you can definitely see the Catholic influence on this movie (due to Gibson). I always LOVE (!) to hear the gospel through the eyes of others though. I learn something new every time. 1 Cor 13:13 (NLT) "and the greatest of these is love." |
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Below is a post copied from the "Lent thread" in response to a question Texagal asked after she saw the movie. Now I've seen the movie
Quote: Texagal, "I go see it tonight (Sunday). When I was in Junior high, I went on a retreat. The speaker on that retreat was very graphic about what Christ went through in suffering during the passion. That was a turning point for me in my faith journey. I had already accepted Jesus as my savior and felt that I was loved and forgiven and would be with God thorughout all eternity, but that day I made Him Lord of my life as well. I figured if he could go through that in dying for me, the least I could do was really live my life for him with Him directing my every way. That understanding of the passion was what led me to be willing to go into full-time ministry. I'm glad you asked the question Texagal, I'll remember that verbal description as I see this visual depiction. I'll check in after I see it tonight." So now I've seen the movie. Really heavy and very sobering. I expected to cry, but didn't. I found myself really focused and engrossed in studying every aspect to the point where I was exhausted after the film. I was more a student of it since I had heard so much about it and wanted to observe and critique what I had heard for myself. It wasn't as bloody as I'd been led to believe, however, it was more than bloody enough and it was pretty awful and gory. I forced myself to watch scenes that in another movie of like ilk I would have shut my eyes. I don't watch blood and gore normally. I figured I needed to see it and experience it if Christ felt it and experienced it. After the movie the person I went with wanted to chat about the correctness and inconsistencies and I found myself really turned inward and not wanting such a conversation. Even again today I didn't want the conversation. So I guess I'm still processing and still feeling the personal impact of the film. It is still working inside me and not really ready to come out. There were certain inconsistencies that I observed with my understanding of history, but in the big scheme it was more accurate than most. The first 5 minutes of the movie and the Gethsemane scene and the agitation, fear, and the sweating of blood sort of summed up the rest of the movie. I liked some of the flashbacks as a way to include other parts of the gospel stories and expand the one 24 hour period that the movie covers. At times the movie did seem to drag some. I felt like saying, get on with it. I read the internet review today about it being the second highest grossing film of all time for a 5 day release and the 9th highest weekend grossing film of all time. They say that it is a major blockbuster success after expecting it only to have a niche audience amongst conservative Christians. They are also really surprised that a subtitled film in Aramaic and Latin had this appeal. The controversy around the violence and around Jewish blame may have piqued interest in others (or it just may have been the Holy Spirit). Interesting that the actress who played Mary was Jewish and she said that she felt the Jewish customs and situation were well respected through out the film. Hmmmm. So what is my summary. Go see it if you think you can at all stand it. Don't take children under say 13 and only then if they are not too sensitive and effected by grotesque violence. The "R" rating means age 17 for a reason, remember that. Be prepared to understand the humanness of Christ and the suffering He went through in a whole new light. Also be prepared to understand His utter love for us. Journey We love because God first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God, " yet hates his brother (sister), he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother (sister) whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 1 John 4:19-20 |
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Boy I hear ya Journey. My wife and I drove home in utter silence after the film. It took me a day to begin to process my feelings/thoughts etc... At least my thoughts that I was willing to share with the public. Personally? Boy... I felt like I was the one nailing Him on the cross. I also felt so very inadequate as a Christian. In fact I felt very ashamed to even call myself a Christian after watching the movie. What kind of love do I show others compared to the Love Christ showed us?
1 Cor 13:13 (NLT) "and the greatest of these is love." |
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Journey and Elaine,
Interesting that you both needed quiet time to process the film afterwards. That was also my case. I went to see it Friday evening with my mother, brother and sister-in-law. Since I met my family at the theatre, it was easy enough to have the alone time afterwards. I have to say that it took me pretty much the entire weekend to cast off the pall the movie left. And even so, today I went out after work to have a couple of drinks with colleagues to unwind and return myself to my normally relaxed self. I think the movie must have altered something in me that is not at the conscious level. I'm usually a pretty happy-go-lucky kinda person but have felt strained every since seeing the movie. There are some things that I want to express about the movie to both of you but am not ready to get back on that train tonight. Think I'll just go to bed. Will write again later. |
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I would have to agree with Gibson when he said he felt the Holy Spirit's influence when he directed/edited this movie. I can't wait to see the scenes they cut. I just wanted Gibson to talk about more, MORE! of Jesus' life (scenes from His life were my favorite - granted Gibson used much 'artistic freedom' here but I think he was pretty 'spot-on'), His teachings, His miracles etc...
Also on my wish list... Where was Joseph? There wasn't one scene with Jesus and His dad!? I know the role of Mary is extremely important to Catholics but I would have liked to have seen scenes with Joseph His 'other' father as well. My favorite scenes? 1. The touching moment when Mary came to Jesus when He fell down as a child. If you have children you'll understand... 2. Satan screaming in anger and fear when Jesus dies. 'Damn(!) - I've blown it!!!!' "GOTCHA! 'Game, set, match!" I wanted to yell out! I also came away from the movie with a deep respect for what each of the denominations 'brings to the table'. The movie highlighted much of the Catholic influence, teaching, emphasis etc.. I would have loved to have seen a movie from a Baptist, Full Gospel, Pentecostal, Protestant, 'Kingdom' movement, 'Faith' movement etc.. perspective. They all see the glorious Kingdom of God from a slightly different angle. Same Kingdom, just different emphasis. I would have loved to have seen 10 more movies about Christ all from different perspectives. That would be something. Another thing that dawned on me today was the fact that this movie is bringing in big bucks and the box office (while not costing that much to make). I wouldn't be surprised to see Hollywood make more 'such' movies focusing in on Jesus. Not for the purpose that Gibson did ... but for the financial gain. However the message gets out I don't care - as long as the message isn't distorted to a great extent. Something that I'm sure is bound to happen if non-Christians or Christians that bow to pressure to make the Gospel 'politically correct' are in charge. I'm sure satan will try and turn this defeat into a 'victory' but marching out numerous 'copycat' films that will attempt to skew the message. 1 Cor 13:13 (NLT) "and the greatest of these is love." [This message was edited by Elaine on March 01, 2004 at 08:06 PM.] |
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I saw the film Friday evening also. There were some things I wished for as well. One when on the cross and Christ cried, Father why have You forsaken Me? It would have lent more impact to what it cost the Godhead and Jesus Christ specifically.
One thing that seems to be occurring already is people asking questions. My friend works in a school where there are many folks that take a dim view of Christianity and particularly her view of it, “Ye must be born again.” Yet, she is the one they are starting to ask the questions of. My prayer is that we all be ready and prepared by asking God to let His Spirit have freedom in our lives that we may honor and glorify His Son and be able to answer anyone who asks. There are two hymns that were called to my mind as I watched the movie. One was “Were you there when they crucified my Lord?” I think that this hymn captures our experience at Calvary when it says, ‘Sometimes, sometimes, it causes me to tremble, tremble. Were you there when they crucified my Lord?’ The other hymn is “There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emanuel’s veins. And sinners plunged beneath that flood loose all there guilty stains.” The second verse says, ‘The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day. And vile as he though I may be I’ll wash my sins a way.’ Both experiences are necessary I believe to have a working understanding of the Atonement. But I believe that it is necessary that the tremble give way to rejoicing and that is our place now at the Cross. “At the cross at the cross where I first saw the sight and the burden of my heart rolled away. It was there by faith I received my sight and now I am happy all the day.” OK, so I can’t count, three hymns. LOL Deb can’t count… John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. |
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quote: I haven't heard any mention of this but do you suppose Gibson isn't also interested in financial profit? Perhaps he's giving all his earnings away but I haven't anything on that and would be interested if you've heard some information on that score. I happen to be one of those who has no interest or intention in seeing the movie for a variety of reasons however I'm glad to hear that others are finding something positive in the experience! Peace in Christ, Anita christianlesbians.com |
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Anita -- I have no desire to see the movie as well. People around here look at me like I'm a heathen for not wanting to see it. hehehe...if they ONLY knew that I was gay what would they say then?
Belated Congratulations on your "official wedding" in the states! Cristi Whether you get the answer you prayed for, or the answer you dread, God's grace is the same. -- Unknown |
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My son & his girlfriend saw it near their college campus. I haven't seen it yet myself & asked if they wanted to see it again when they're home for their Spring Break. There was a pause & then they looked at each other and said, "We want to see it again....but not right away. It was SO INTENSE!" They both cried through the entire film, as did most people in the audience. I definitely DO want to see it, especially after reading what Elaine & Journey have posted. I think we have a natural tendency to not want to dwell on the true degree of sacrifice and suffering Christ underwent for us. It sounds as if this film forces us to do that, which I think is a good thing. JMHO.
Agape, DewDoc God is too good to be unkind and He is too wise to be mistaken. And when we cannot trace His hand, we must trust His heart.  |
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quote:Of course but that wasn't his primary reason for making the movie. He risked EVERYTHING to make this movie. His money (>25million), his reputation and his career. Hollywood is NOT a place (especially now) that thinks too highly of Christians. Let's just say that if Gibson wanted to do a movie that somehow involved the occult/satan etc.. The movie houses would be lining up to bank roll such a movie (a sad comment on our culture no?). How many stepped up to the plate to bankroll a movie about Christ? Zero. Gibson financed it himself and I hope it pays of in a 'hundred fold' return for him! 1 Cor 13:13 (NLT) "and the greatest of these is love." |
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Originally posted by Elaine:
quote: Just so it's clear, I didn't suggest financial gain was his primary motive. Peace in Christ, Anita christianlesbians.com |
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quote: Cristi, My experience has been the same as yours in that I was just with my family for a few days and when I would reply when I asked that I had no intention of seeing the movie, the look they all gave me back in return made me wonder if they were thinking..."Hmmm, first a lesbian and now this...it figures." And thanks for the congratulations Peace in Christ, Anita christianlesbians.com |
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Anita and SweetSpirit,
I don't think either of you should feel bad or have to explain to anyone why you choose not to see the movie. The reasons are personal for each of you, and not going to see a movie in no way means you "aren't saved" or "less a Christian". Yes, I saw the movie, for reasons probably different from why others went to see it. My experience watching it was probably different from others. I didn't cry nearly like many did, but then there were few in the movie theatre where I saw it who did. We all came out of the movie quietly, and not really saying much to anyone. I know that there was a line of over 100 people waiting to see it, all watching us, trying to gauge what the movie was like by our reaction. The people who went to see it at the showing I did, were all pretty much people who were home for a variety of reasons. It was the middle of the day, on a work day and so it was a different crowd than the one's who came in 3 hours later. Everyone is going to take something different from the movie....and not everyone is going to want or need to see it. All this to say, don't apologize to anyone for not wanting to see it. God knows the reasons and it's really not anyone else's business. As to Mel and his reasons for making the movie. I'm sure there were different reasons, I won't say that money might not have been one of them, but only Mel and God know for sure. If God hadn't been behind it, the movie would have flopped big time and there would be no discussion about what people think about it. How long has it been since you saw or heard about a movie that had people talking before they saw it and after? It just doesn't happen much anymore. How often do we see a "Christian" movie get people talking? Yes, there are other ways the movie could have been presented, and I too would have like to see a more universal "slant" on it, rather than such a heavy Roman Catholic slant, but that's part of where Mel is and it is naturally going to show through to some degree. There were things in the movie that made me wonder, but I chose to simply watch it and let God show me what He wanted me to take from it. My partner saw the movie with me, and her take from it was quite different from mine. We talked about it, and she understood that I saw it differently in many places due in part to a lot of the reading and research I have done on the Crucifixion and such. She's been pretty much one religion her whole life, where I've had the opportunity to experience many of them. I chose to do so, to understand more about the religions and to understand why there appears to be such little unity amoung the different religions. This was something God had me do for a number of reasons. I learned many things and have been able to take those lessons to heart and to understand many churches and people better as a result. In part, that's what this movie is helping me to do. It has people who don't even like religion talking. Pretty good feat if you ask me. I go to a gamer site, where many want nothing to do with religion, and they are talking about it more than many of the Christian boards I've gone to. Many of them see the movie in much the same way I did. There are some of them who also choose not to see the movie. I don't think less of any one of them, nor do I think less of anyone here or anywhere who doesn't see it. Not everyone needs to. God knows what each one of us is needing and if He isn't minding that there are those who don't want to see "The Passion of Christ", well, why should any of us think we are better than Him and try to make another person feel guilty or feel bad because they don't. Do what you feel is right and what is comfortable for you on this matter. It's not like you are hurting anyone or even yourselves. You're not committing some awful sin. You're just not going to see a movie. Anyway, sorry for rambling. |
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Good post Angel
Some folks are going to want to see this movie and others are not. We each have our reasons and surely no one here is saying that one must 'justify' themself if they have no desire to see this movie. I started this thread to share my experience with this movie and see what others felt/thought/saw after they viewed it as well.1 Cor 13:13 (NLT) "and the greatest of these is love." |
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I know that Elaine, and didn't mean to imply that this was the case here. I think it's sad that friends and family feel it's OK to make someone feel bad for not wanting to see a movie. I never wanted to see the Exorcist, and never felt I had to explain. I just said "No thank you" and left it there. I am glad that there is some discussion of it here. I'm glad to see that my thoughts and reactions are not so dissimilar to everyone else. Not much anyways.
 So, what I'm saying is, I meant no offence, implied or otherwise to anyone at all that is here. Just was thinking "outloud". |
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Well, I didn't see this movie yet but I heard some news and reviews.
I'm not sure when but I will see this movie when it released in Japan. I read many comments and I just felt, even it is 'good' or 'bad', I need to see this movie. I read many comments in here and all comments came from 'Christian' mind/background. But just one important thing, Japan is NOT a country which have Christian background/thoughts. So, I tihnk the reaction in here will be different in U.S. I guess, maybe many people in here will take it as 'one of' histrical results. And maybe some of them might be think, it is a waste of time to see this movie. But I think, everyone must have their own thoughts. Just my opinion. |
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We're going to see it tomorrow, so I'll let you all know what I think....(like that's unusual...)
 Agape, DewDoc God is too good to be unkind and He is too wise to be mistaken. And when we cannot trace His hand, we must trust His heart. |
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O.k., we saw it.....VERY intense, VERY difficult to watch, Elaine--I agree! When the film ended, everybody just stayed in their seats for a long time & the theater was totally silent.....The ride home was pretty quiet, too. We all needed to just think about it, to process it on our own. It was, in some ways, a draining experience. My hubby said my entire body was tense throughout the entire film. I just know I basically spent 2 hours just saying over & over in my mind, "I'm SORRY...I'm SORRY..." Anybody else feel that way? The flashbacks of Mary running to Jesus when he fell down as a child & skinned his knee really tore at my Irish mother heart.....but also made me think even more. As hard as this was for us to watch, as hard as it was for Jesus to go through....Can we even begin to imagine what it would've been like to WATCH OUR CHILD go through this? And to know that we had the power to STOP IT? It totally boggles my human mind.....Can we even fathom that type of Love?
Agape, DewDoc God is too good to be unkind and He is too wise to be mistaken. And when we cannot trace His hand, we must trust His heart. |
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DewDoc,
One way I have sometimes expressed the effects of my continuing to sin after I know something is wrong is to say/think that I'm personally dropping the hammer on the nail in Christ's hand or swinging the lash. That image is even more graphic for me now. It was my sin that caused Him to be crucifed. Mary was a destressed Mother. I would have been more like a Roman guard - somehow involved. Sobers me up pretty fast. I keep coming back to if He died for me like that I should live for Him the best I can. Grace and Peace, Journey We love because God first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God, " yet hates his brother (sister), he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother (sister) whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 1 John 4:19-20 |
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quote: Maybe Masayo can do this Scripture some justice. My words can't although your words came close Doc... John 3:16 (NIV) "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son..." 1 Cor 13:13 (NLT) "and the greatest of these is love." |
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