I decided rather than wait and see if anyone wanted to do a Bible Study, I'd jump in with both feet and start with some I've found on a good website. They are called "Gay Christian Bible Studies. So far there are 33 weeks worth of them. They are short and sweet, yet make you think. We'll see what happens from here.

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As gay Christians, we are often in the minority -- both in the Christian community and in the gay community. It's easy to feel overwhelmed, especially when we seem surrounded by opposition.

For many of us, the battle is both internal and external. We struggle on multiple fronts in an effort to live holy lives, yet we get very little support from others. On top of it all, each of us has his or her own private pains and struggles.

This week, if you feel tired or alone in your situation, whatever it may be, spend some time praying and meditating on these words from David. See what God has to say to you in the midst of your struggles.

quote:

Psalm 13:1-6 (NIV)

How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever?
How long will you hide your face from me?
How long must I wrestle with my thoughts
and every day have sorrow in my heart?
How long will my enemy triumph over me?

Look on me and answer, O Lord my God.
Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death;
my enemy will say, "I have overcome him,"
and my foes will rejoice when I fall.

But I trust in your unfailing love;
my heart rejoices in your salvation.
I will sing to the Lord,
for he has been good to me.

It's a count-your-blessings sort of message, isn't it? The psalm narrates a number of things we often do: thinking that God has abandoned us, that our enemies have triumphed over us, that what we go through must be the dark night of the soul which only God can lighten.

And yet, the final verse seems quite contradicting: "I will sing to the Lord, because he has dealt bountifully with me." (NRSV)

I don't think there is a real contradiction there. Life is not fair, and it can be really difficult at times. It is not a sign that God has left us, or that He has withdrawn His support. His love remains 'unfailing' (NIV) and 'steadfast' (NRSV) no matter what, and we can always come to that conclusion by counting the blessings.

The psalm also seems to raise the issue of why God allows suffering in the first place, why all the trials and heartache. I don't have a definitive answer to that, but I guess it's part of the terrestrial life that we currently live. God has allowed free will, and free will often leads to choices that bring harm, intentionally and unintentionally alike.

For me, this psalm is a psalm of assurance that everything will be all right in the end, and that whatever hardships we may go through in this life, they will not be in vain.

That's it for me Aaron.

I've been in the deep dark place of no hope where David (The Psalmist) has been. I've felt totally alone and left by God, yet when I finally find my out of that dark pit of despair, I find that God has been right there, working in my life, and it has been a bounty.

I've learned to somewhat welcome those dark times, for they make the "good" times more precious.

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Gonna throw a challenge out to others. What other verses can help us when we are feeling so down and in despair of God's Hope? Can you post at least the Bible Book and Passage, and see what all can find to help us all.

For me: Isaiah 40:31 has helped me to remember that God is there and God cares.

I'm sure we all have stories to tell. I can't say that I welcome the dark times, nor that I am able to cope with them better as time goes by, but at least I tend not to blame God for whatever may be happening any more. I tend to turn to Him instead, in search of some safety and peace of mind.

I liked the passage from Isaiah you offered. I like the idea of 'waiting for the Lord.'

As an example of a different strategy, I offer Ephesians 6:10-17, where Paul writes about taking the 'shield of faith' and fighting the evil one. Paul, as ever, seems to be taking an activist approach!

He writes a lot about 'the cosmic powers of this present darkness' (v.12). I've been struggling with that a lot, actually. My faith tradition has pretty much stopped placing any emphasis on these supernatural causes of suffering. I don't think anyone in my congregation actually believes in demons and such, and frankly, I'm not sure what to make of it all myself. Any thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
I'm sure we all have stories to tell. I can't say that I welcome the dark times, nor that I am able to cope with them better as time goes by, but at least I tend not to blame God for whatever may be happening any more. I tend to turn to Him instead, in search of some safety and peace of mind.

I liked the passage from Isaiah you offered. I like the idea of 'waiting for the Lord.'

As an example of a different strategy, I offer Ephesians 6:10-17, where Paul writes about taking the 'shield of faith' and fighting the evil one. Paul, as ever, seems to be taking an activist approach!

He writes a lot about 'the cosmic powers of this present darkness' (v.12). I've been struggling with that a lot, actually. My faith tradition has pretty much stopped placing any emphasis on these supernatural causes of suffering. I don't think anyone in my congregation actually believes in demons and such, and frankly, I'm not sure what to make of it all myself. Any thoughts?

I won't go into why--Yes, I belive there are demons and such.

quote:

Originally posted by blu: I won't go into why--Yes, I belive there are demons and such.

Now that was a conversation stopper!

Still, could you share a bit more on that? You don't necessarily have to make it personal. I know so little about these things, I'd appreciate any input.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:

quote:

Originally posted by blu: I won't go into why--Yes, I belive there are demons and such.

Now that was a conversation stopper!

Still, could you share a bit more on that? You don't necessarily have to make it personal. I know so little about these things, I'd appreciate any input.

Does GC have a PM system? If we do, if you PM me I'll be more than happy to elaborate on my reasons, but I won't put it here for all to see at this time. If we don't, then I'll send you an email and put a "Tag line" of THIS IS BLU from GC as the Subject line, so you'll know who it is from. It's something I rarely speak about or speak of, but I simply can tell you that I have very good reasons for believing in demons and such. The only way for me to explain is to make it personal and I just won't do that here.

Sure, don't worry about it, I understand. You can shoot me an email, if you'd like. I think it's listed in my profile.

Hey Aaron, I like Blu believe there are demons since Jesus cast out several and I also know that "....greater is He who is in you than he whois in the world." I John 4:4

I've always been agnostic when it came to demons, as it ceased to be a big part of my church tradition. I've tended to agree with what my Bible dictionary says on that matter: "It is concluded that, since the symptoms of the affliction were frequently those of bodily disease (as dumbness, blindness, epilepsy), or those seen in cases of ordinary insanity, and since also the phrase "to have a devil" is constantly used in connexion with, and apparently equivalent to, "to be mad", the demoniacs were merely persons suffering under unusual diseases of body and mind."

However, the Dictionary does go on to say that "we are led to the ordinary and literal interpretation of these [NT] passages, that there are evil spirits, subjects of the Evil One, who in the days of the Lord Himself and His Apostles especially, were permitted by God to exercise a direct influence over the souls and bodies of certain men."

Since our Week 1 discussion is on suffering, I'd welcome any comments in connection with this. Namely, are we to look into the causes of suffering in the realm of supernatural and evil (and what is the role of God there), or in something more mundane and down to earth?

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
I've always been agnostic when it came to demons, as it ceased to be a big part of my church tradition. I've tended to agree with what my Bible dictionary says on that matter: "It is concluded that, since the symptoms of the affliction were frequently those of bodily disease (as dumbness, blindness, epilepsy), or those seen in cases of ordinary insanity, and since also the phrase "to have a devil" is constantly used in connexion with, and apparently equivalent to, "to be mad", the demoniacs were merely persons suffering under unusual diseases of body and mind."

However, the Dictionary does go on to say that "we are led to the ordinary and literal interpretation of these [NT] passages, that there are evil spirits, subjects of the Evil One, who in the days of the Lord Himself and His Apostles especially, were permitted by God to exercise a direct influence over the souls and bodies of certain men."

Since our Week 1 discussion is on suffering, I'd welcome any comments in connection with this. Namely, are we to look into the causes of suffering in the realm of supernatural and evil (and what is the role of God there), or in something more mundane and down to earth?

I think that suffering due to demons and such is very minimal in our world. I think much of the suffering is due to man's own fault's and limitations. Sometimes of their own doing, and sometimes due to what others have done. My partner's son was born blind, with no Optic nerves. She prayed to God for healing for her child, and accepted whatever God had in store. He chose to heal her son. (He still has NO optic nerves, and the doctors say that it is impossible, but he sees with better than 20/20 vision. They have proof that he has no optic nerve, yet he sees.) My partner's sister had a son born with Cerebral Palsy at about the same time as Shad's son. Her sister prayed for healing for her son, but there was no physical healing. Her sister died bitter about that. She resented Shad because Shad's son was healed and hers wasn't. Her son suffered due to his mother's bitterness over his condition and not being healed. Shad suffered, due to the bitterness and resentment that her sister had toward her until the day that she died. Shad's sister suffered, because she didn't understand God's will and design in her son's life or in her life.

I have suffered many things in my life. I sometimes wish that it hadn't been so much, but in the end, I do truly welcome those things as blessings, because they helped to shape me as the person that I am today. I hope someone with compassion and understanding. I learned long ago, that it isn't always a physical healing that God will give us. Sometimes, it's a mental and emotional healing, that will allow us to handle the physical suffering without bitterness and resentment.

That doesn't mean that I think that no suffering is ever because of demons and such, but I don't think it's anywhere near what many think or imagine. Some here know that I have DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder or Multiple Personality Disorder). Many would say that it's "demons". It's not. Again, I count this "disorder" as a blessing. It helped me to deal with a situation from an extremely young age and to cope with situations that no child should EVER have to bear. Even today, at nearly 42, I am still a "multiple". I coexist with the "insiders" and for me, it works. I wouldn't be who I am today without them, if I were alive at all. They helped me to stay alive. I know that!

I think that Epilepsy, deafness, muteness and other such diseases and disorders were very misunderstood in Jesus' day. Today, I can't think of any reputable person who would classify them as "demon possessed".In Jesus day, because it was misunderstood, I think many did call it demons. I do believe that Jesus cast demons out and that others have in His name.

Aaron, give me time to collect my thoughts and write my story out in Notepad, then I'll send you an email with my story for you to read. I hope that after reading it, you'll understand more about why I didn't post it here and why I believe in demons and demon possession. Don't be suprised if it takes me a few days. It's very difficult for me to tell, let alone to write. It will be a LONG email, I must warn you of that. Longer than probably any post I've made here over the years.

That was a great post, Blu, so thoughtful, so honest. Thank you for sharing about DID. I wasn't aware that you have it.

I agree with you that many of the diseases and their causes were misunderstood in Jesus' time. I suppose many continue to be misunderstood to this day, although a great deal of progress has been made, without any doubt.

Take your time to write your story. Thank you again for being willing to share it. I'm sure it's not easy for you to do that.

I am enjoying this thread. I am swamped with work so I am unable to contribute, but sure enjoy reading your thoughts.

Hi Groucho! It's good to know that people other than Blu or me are involved, if only as readers.

I am glad we managed to get things going in the Bible Study section. I would encourage others to join in, if they possibly can. Also, think about possible topics for the next week.

quote:

Originally posted by groucho:
I am enjoying this thread. I am swamped with work so I am unable to contribute, but sure enjoy reading your thoughts.

GROUCHO!!! I've missed you!

I'm glad you're at least able to read. I'll be posting new Bible Studies once a week over the next 33 weeks, so hopefully you'll find a quiet moment at some point to be able to jump into one or more of them and share with us also.

Aaron,
Very long email has been shot your way to the email listed in the profile you have here. Even if you don't read it right away, can you just tell me that you did recieve it. The subject line is "This is blu from Gay Christians".

Thank you.

Good that you told me. Gmail sorted it in the Spam folder for some reason. I wouldn't have payed attention if you hadn't told me. So, I did receive it and I'll read it during the day. May I email you privately once I finish reading? Thanks, again.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron:
Good that you told me. Gmail sorted it in the Spam folder for some reason. I wouldn't have payed attention if you hadn't told me. So, I did receive it and I'll read it during the day. May I email you privately once I finish reading? Thanks, again.

*sigh* I forgot to add that to the email. What was I thinking?? Of COURSE you may email me!! Glad you got it.

Hey guys

Interesting thread you've got going here. I'm with you on a 'read only basis' at the moment cos I'm a bit busy, but might well leap in and contribute in the future!

quote:

Originally posted by wanderer:
Hey guys

Interesting thread you've got going here. I'm with you on a 'read only basis' at the moment cos I'm a bit busy, but might well leap in and contribute in the future!

I'm sorry you are so busy, but please, jump in when you can. I'll be posting the next week's study probably on Friday, since this and next weeks were so short.