Well, I haven't posted in a long time mainly b/c I have been extrememly busy with school. But I am in a dilemma right now and have been stuggling for several days and I am trying to work everything out with God and myself. I told my sister that I was gay--she was okay with this. I told her that I met someone that I am very interested in and she was okay with that too. Then in the car the other day, she told me that I needed to cut things off with the woman that I have been talking to b/c she knows that I wouldn't be happy with the lifestyle--she says b/c she knows me. I got really confused--so I just sort of avoided the subject and went on. Then I went to church Wednesday night, and the preacher said that a homosexual approached him and asked him what the bible said about homosexuality and my pastor told him that it was a sin and that those that live in the lifestyle were doomed to hell. He said that you cannot live a lifestyle of sin and be saved whether it is homosexuality or adultry and he has proof from the bible. I got extremely nervous and cried all the way home from service--I started doubting my salvation and haven't been able to shake the feeling since. I had a long walk and talk with God today and though I feel somewhat better--I can't shake this feeling. Is it right or is it wrong? Am I making excuses and trying to justify my life? I don't know anymore. All I know is I don't won't to stand before God ashamed at the judgement. How does one truly know if this is right or not?
Also, I know that you guys believe that you are born gay. Does anyone know where it implies this in the Bible that one is born gay or straight?
I need your prayers mostly and any advice and thoughts you would like to share.

CareCare:

I don't know the answer to your questions because I am from a church that says things similar to what yours says. I believe God created me this way. No doubt. But I still have that nagging feeling inside of me...just like you described.

Recently I decided to purchase the book, "Reconciling Journey" by Michal Anne Pepper. I only started it today, but I'd like to share with you some words from the introduction. In one place it refers to the type of people that might be helped by completing the book and this description is one of the three groups it describes. It says:

"Those of us who grew up in conservative churches are particularly afflicted by this question. We were so brainwashed by a particular view of God that no amount of education or reason can overcome the intensity of those early images and stories. So we are haunted by the question: What if they are right? What if homosexuality is a sin?"

In another paragraph, it says, "Part of our healing process is to reclaim the Bible and the words - to reclaim them in the context of our lives as lesbian and gay Christians." That is what I want to do...reclaim the words. I think that is what we all need to do.

As I journey through this book, I hope to be able to say at the end, "I KNOW it's not a sin and feel it in my soul."

Sorry I'm not much help tonight, but as I journey through this book, I will pray for you and hopefully be able to come back and say more.

God Bless you.

Carol

Carol, I was going to quote the same passage, but you beat me to it! Those were good words and the question of "What if they are right?" plagued me for a long time.

Carecare, this is your journey. You have to settle this with God...but it's hard when so many other voices are telling you what to think. RECONCILING JOURNEY by Michal Anne Pepper would be an excellent resource...and a few of us have just started it and are going to share our insights. Join us.

About the whole going to hell thing...did you earn your salvation or did Jesus? Weren't you taught, like me, that salvation is a gift? Jesus isn't going to rip it out of your hands if you've accepted it. He wants you.

As far as references in the bible to being born gay or straight, I don't think there are really either. Procreation was necessary, so there was a lot of procreation. The concept of a loving, committed, same-sex relationship isn't there. I'm sure there were gay people back then (and some say the eunuchs mentioned are an example) but there are lots of modern ideas that are non-existent in the bible.

You are not going to find one passage in the bible that is going to get you off the hook with the conservative Christians in your life. Their anti-gay verses will continue to be brought up, no matter how hard you try to explain your beliefs. You have to settle this for yourself. I'm glad you're still talking to God...don't stop. God belongs to you just as much an anyone else.

I know your confusion so well...I'd bet most of us here can relate. You're not alone. And the journey isn't easy, but it's good. It's nice to have finally made peace with myself... I spent too many years full of fear. I was self-focused, worrying about my struggle instead of reaching out to those around me.

I will pray for you. And I really encourage you to get a copy of that book and join the discussion. What do you think? (Don't tell me you don't have time! You'd better have a really good excuse... ...in fact, you should be ordering the book right now!)

Like someone else said...it is a process...you will not be in the same place today as you are tomorrow. I would suggest the book "Is the homosexual my neighbor?" By Scanzoni...however, you are now at the place that many of us have been in. You will need to seek God on your own in the matter. This is the best place you can be, actually. People will always pressure you to believe as they believe, and if you are not homosexual, there will be other places they will condemn you on. So, you will not find all wisdom with people, but ALL wisdom and truth with God. I feel the most comfortable in telling you to seek HIM because I am surer than anything that He will not lead you astray. PEOPLE are not even aware of their own prejudices...notice in the word, "prejudice" are the words "pre" and "judge"?
"seek His Kingdom, and all these things will be given to you as well." Luke 12:31

I agree that you should order the Reconciling Journey book, CareCare. I got it & I'm not even gay, myself! I'm just trying to understand things from the perspective of my many close friends who ARE gay and have struggled just as you are struggling now. Some have made their peace with God & some are still talking it out.....I don't pretend to know what you're going through but I do think you might want to check it out. You can order it on amazon.com. Anyway, there's another thread on here specifically for people studying that book. Good luck & God bless!

CareCare,
you've recieved some excellent advice here, so I won't try to improve on it.

But I would like to address your pastor's statement that all who sin are doomed to hell. Think about that statement. How can anyone who truly belives in the words and life of Jesus Christ say such a thing? First, we are not doomed to Hell by any sin because we have recieved love and forgiveness from the One, Living and Perfect Example - Jesus.

And also, while your Pastor may believe that homosexuality is a sin, I do not. I believe that God made me this way, that he gave me a unique gift to love other women. Some people just never understand that God graces us with the gifts and abilities that we, each of us, need. He doesn't load everyone with the same gifts nor the same measure of a gift. Everyone can't sing or dance or draw or heal others. We are not all gifted with the ability to teach or garden or play sports well.

What we are all given is an abundance of what we need. Part of "getting right with the Lord" is accepting what God has given you and appreciating it. And just as important is learing to appreciate that He made others different than you and rejoycing in their gifts as well as your own.

Grace and Peace,

Tiggertoo

Carecare--

How are you doing? Did you order the book yet?

Hey Care care
Praying for you that you will accept the good advise given to you>>I know all to well that it is easier to accept the bad stuff especially if we think we have done something to deserve it,but always remember:
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God>>so are we all doomed? Not by the God I serve,as a loving and caring Father in Heaven !
Just keep searching and you will find the answers within your relationship with Our Heavenly Father.

Love in Jesus

kimmie

I want to thank everyone for their prayers and advice. I am looking into getting that book--it will definitely help. I am feeling somewhat better but I know it is a journey. I am glad that I don't have to walk it alone. I know that this site is here to help people just like me who are still struggling. Thank you guys for everything--I really appreciate it. I go back to nursing school tomorrow so I ask for your prayers during the semester--I will check in on the site esp the thread discussing the Reconciling Journey book.

CareCare:

Best wishes to you as you go back to nursing school...what an amazing field for your career. I will be praying for you as I journey through the book. I'm only on day 5 but I'm already being challenged by what I have found there. The challenge is just what I needed too.

God bless you.

Carol

CareCare,
God Bless you as you go back to school. Keep your eyes on the Lord and He will hold you up. Wishing you do very well there. I will keep you in prayer Sister.
ROSE

Rose S.
Because Thy Lovingkindness is better than Life, my lips shall praise Thee. Thus I will Bless Thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in Thy Name. My Soul followeth hard after Thee: Thy Right Hand upholdeth me. O let the nations be glad and sing for Joy: for Thou shalt Judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon Earth. God Shall Bless us; and All the ends of the Earth Shall fear Him. Psalm 63:3,4,8 Psalm 67:4,7

Good to hear from you! Hope this semester is enjoyable, encouraging, and challenging (in a good way!). I know you'll be busy but do check in once in a while and let us know how you're doing.

Here is what I have struggled with, my being a lesbian isn't so much the sin, as living in sin with sex before or outside of marriage. I struggle with this. So what happens if Gay marriage becomes legal? Is it then okay to be lesbian if I am in a marriage? What would God say to that? If you say that the bible is not the inspired word of God then you might as well doubt there is a God too, homosexuality is something I haven't been able to discern out of the scriptures yet. I struggle so much with this. I love the Lord, my God so much and he knew I was going to be this way, they say it was becaused I was so abused as a child, but God knew this was going to be, and I don't think He would love me any less because of the way I am but I think He would be heartbroken if I had sex outside of the boundaries that He set up. So I am for now remaining celebate, but what would I do if faced with a love relationship and Gay marriages are still not legal?
I am so confused sometimes and then I get very angry. Bottom line is I want to talk to God face to face and ask him for the truth. It also says search me Lord and show me anything within myself that is not pleasing to you, I am still praying......
Lisa

Paraheart,
You are asking the $64,000 questions. That is all of the big ones. good for you. You also appear to love God very much and to want to follow god's will for your life. In my personal estimation, you can find good, responsible answers to these questions that will let you live more comfortably with your sexuality. I'm sure that others besides me will chime in but here are a few of my ideas.
1. Scripture: Scripture can be seen as the inspired word of God and be interpreted or misinterpreted in many ways. Just because the historical church has casually interpretted it one way does not mean that they got it right. The church has failed to see "truth" in scripture many times in the past like when Europeans used scripture to say that "dark skinned" people had no soul or were sub-human or that slavery was God's plan. It was used to justify the crusades and the killing of 10,000 of people. None of us today would even remotely think that that is God's message in scripture. Please go to the sections of the christianlesbians.com or gaychurch.org web pages that deal with scripture or to another such source and begin a careful and prayful study of scripture trying to see God's message again for the first time. Ask the Holy Spirit to be with you as you study. A bunch of people are working on the Bible study "Reconciling Journey" that is helping some with this process. You may be pleasantly surprised as so many of us have been. Most of us fervantly believe in scripture and have come to peace with the fact that we see no contradition between being lesbian and being Christian.

2. Sex and marriage. Marriage is defined differently in every culture. For a Christian does the state define marriage or does the law of love? That is like asking does the state define sin or does a greater power. We can be within the law of the land and be very much outside of God's love. In some countries, marriage occurs when you jump a broom stick or cross into a hut. The key is that it is a life-long monogomous committment. Many churches currently "marry" gay people or perform "union" ceremonies. If you get to the point that you have truly picked a life partner, then you have a number of choices as to how you make a committment and celebrate that union. Everything from a legal domestic partnership contract that your lawyer draws up to going to a country or state like Canada, Australia or Massechusets where marriage may be legaized by the state. You can go to any of the churches that bless gay unions for a ceremony before God and community.

I'm glad you are on the website and I hope that you will soon find peace. May God be with you. god does love and accept you just as you are.
Peace and prayers, Journey

We love because God first loved us. If anyone says, "I love God, " yet hates his brother (sister), he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother (sister) whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 1 John 4:19-20

Para I highly recommend going to the section on the board dedicated to this topic http://gaychurch.org/eve/forums?a=cfrm&s=707293055&f=317293055. I think you will find many of the forums there of great help

1 Cor 13:13 (NLT)
"and the greatest of these is love."

Thank you! I found the section on this topic after I posted it. This is something we all have to come to terms with isn't? And it is a personal journey that no one can help me with, but I sure do appreciate all the help I am getting on these boards. God bless you all!
Lisa

I went through the same struggle with my sexuality and what God has to say about it for about three yrs after I came out. My parents pretty much disowned me along with many of my relatives when they discovered I was in a relationship with a woman. For a few months my mother and I would agrue about it, her words were, "My fight is not with you it is with the devil." Other comments were, you can twist the Bible around to read what you want it to and it is because of your past that you choose to be with a woman. I finally came to a point where I knew it was not healthy to remain angry at my parents for putting me aside. They had a right to their opinion and I needed to respect that, I just didn't have to agree with them. In time I would be a peace with my sexuality until adversity arose then I'd be off doubting again, which was not fair to my partner. As scpriture talks about being tossed about by every wave of doctrine, I was instable in my thinking. I asked God what he thought about it and opened the Bible. My eyes fell upon a verse that talks about man made laws, wow that hit me across the face, powerful words! I discovered, that if I am doing something I do not feel at peace about I ought not be doing it...and I'm not talking about false guilt that is totally differant or fear. As I pondered the thought I recalled times I was intimite with my ex-wife. I had no guilt what so ever, in fact I felt very much a peace being with her that way. Now my first ex- girlfriend God had told me from the start not to be with her because she was not a christian, so with her I had no peace. The same as with my ex-husband and previous boy friends absolutley no peace, more of a torment in my soul. When we are believers God's Spirit lives and resides within us, God says we have no need of man to teach us, God's spirit will bring to mind what God has said. With that thought, Scripture says nothing of two women in an intimate relationship, however we can know it's right by our heart not by listening to our head. Why I say that is because there are things that I've never heard I shouldn't do, but I know I shouldn't do them because my heart will stir with uneasiness inside and I know I shouldn't be doing it. Peace is the best way to weigh out right from wrong because God's Spirit never lies. In the same respect it would not be natural for a straight woman to be with another woman intimatley at that is my thought however. Before Thanksgiving my wife walked out of my life. This was the time my parents had started coming back into my life (an answer to weeks of prayer.) My dad happen to be at my house which is unusual because this was the first he'd come here, and I was just jumping to tell him I was living alone hoping he would be pleased and finally accept me. My heart just stirred about what I was doing and it was if I heard a voice inside that said what are you doing this is not you, you are giving yourself up...and I knew God was telling me that I was doing wrong. I know God's ok with me being gay that is me and he doesn't want me to be none other than who I am. bren@min.midco.net

Welcome Bren!

HIS GRACE AND PEACE,
ROSE

ok... i certainly did not read all of the posts above me. (Sorry i was a bit lazy)And i'm not sure if this is the right area to post this idea..
but i have a question...

Are their any testimonies of pple who were gay/lesbian and have successfully or in other terms really become straight? And become married or what not? How did this happen? I've heard stories of christians, who have come to terms that they were not born gay. And that some little event perhaps changed them. How does this happen? Since most of us strongly believe that we were just born gay, period?

Help? to this question of mine.. please?

Just my opinion mind you but I believe two factors come into play. First is that I believe the Kinsey study was basically right on when he stated that peoples sexuality operated along a continuum (sp?). Some folks are very gay, some quite straight while others can go either way (i.e. bi-sexual). Naturally it would be easier for someone who is bi-sexual to be partnered with either a person from the same sex or with someone from the opposite sex. Not so with folks who are not bi-sexual.

Secondly, I believe there is a small percentage of folks within the gay community and a much larger percentage of folks within the 'straight' community who are partnered with someone who is not 'natural' for their particular sexual orientation. This could come about through social pressure (obviously this affects far more gays trying to be straight than visa versa) or through some significant event in their life. Sexual abuse at an early age can differently come into play here. Of all the gay folks I know there is one person who feels he was probably more naturally bi-sexual and was in fact married for a time but became more involved with men later in life due, he thought, to a sexual abuse issue when he was younger. Why these desires manifested themself later in his life I do not know. But then again my poor friend is plagued by all sorts of self doubts and insecurities so it's hard to say if his swing in sexual orientation truly was caused by this event or he may be dealing with just another of a long list of self-hate and doubts caused by this event. I am not a psychologist so I can't say.

So I said all that to simply say - yes, I believe there is a very small percentage of folks in the gay community who may be gay because of some traumatic event in their life. I believe however that there is a much larger percentage of folks within the straight community who are really gay but got married due to social pressures.

Are there folks who have successfully 'converted' to the other sexual orientation? Sure. I think there are probably more cases of folks who are more naturally bi-sexual doing this than someone who is truly gay or straight. Just my opinion mind you.

I think the real question is why would someone need to 'convert'? Is being straight intrinsically better than being gay? I think the only thing that makes being 'straight' preferable to being gay is the social implications. As for me? I'd rather have my emotional, spiritual and physical sanity than trying to be someone God never intended me to be.

FYI there is an interesting book by Wayne Besen titled "Anything but Straight" As for pro-ex-gay stuff I'd check out sites like Exodus and others who work to 'convert' gays to a 'straight' sexual orientation. They claim to have 'success' stories but then again we used to see so many folks who had been in the ex-gay groups that we referred to them as the 'ex-ex-gay' contigent. Many of them were harmed emotionally and spiritually to no end by these groups. One of my best friends used to be one of the leaders for the ex-gay groups and wrote many books for them. Darlene finally came to terms with her sexual orientation and was one of the primary folks in helping me with my book. She is a very strong and spiritual woman.